Former U.S. Marine and now attorney provides free instructional blog on how to become a lawyer without law school on the California State Bar Law Office Study Program (LOSP), and other alternative methods of becoming an attorney other than traditional law school or college. How to become an attorney with no law school - degree or no college degree. Read below and learn to be a lawyer with no law school now.
I am an attorney. I am one of approximately 64 attorneys who became lawyers on the California State Bar Law Office Study Program. I litigate serious injury lawsuits as well as driving under the influence cases in California cities like Marina del Rey and Huntington Beach.
I litigate serious injury cases like car accidents causing burn injury, brain injury, wrongful death.
I am Michael P. Ehline, a Los Angeles personal injury attorney. I am one of about 64 attorneys in California who passed the Baby Bar Examwith no higher education and General Bar Exam with no law degree, on the California State Bar Law Office Study Program (LOSP). Learning how to become a lawyer with no law school degree is no simple task, but it's do-able. Prior to learning about becoming a lawyer on the California State Bar Law Office Study Program with no law school, I had no college other than basic German, basic French, and some typing lessons . This article on how to become an attorney without college training or a law school degree is not intended to be a law school bible. This is simply one man's story of becoming a California criminal defense and personal injury consumer attorney in California by "reading"for the law on the California State Bar - Law Office Study Program.
State Bar Law Office Study Program without a law school degree, or a college degree by taking the CLEP and then passing the California First Year Law Student's Examination (aka "Baby Bar"). Passing the Baby Bar qualified me to sit for the California Bar Examination three (3) years later.
Some of the People and Organizations Responsible for Helping Me Become a Lawyer Without Law School Degree and Becoming an Attorney Without a College Degree on the Law Office Study Program
At the outset, I want to thank Nathalie Hope at the California State Bar Law Office Study Program for all of her help in administering my Law Office Study experience. I also want to thank all of my supervising attorneys who made it possible for me to try and become an attorney without law school as follows: Jeff Price, Dave Olan, Patrick Milne and Otto Haselfhoff, who agreed to teach me the law in a law office. I want to thank Paul Pfau at Cal Bar Tutorial Review for teaching me how to take and pass the Baby Bar with no law school or college degree and to take and pass the California General Bar Exam with no law degree (aka Juris Doctorate)
Dedicated to the U.S. Marine Corps. and Mustang Officers
Last, but not least, I want to dedicate this article to the organization that instilled in me the spirit and discipline to become a lawyer without law school degree or college degree as follows: Chesty Puller, the U.S. Marine Corps. - the nations most elite fighting force - and all mustangers who came up through the ranks of civilian and military life without law school or college. I am a mustang lawyer. Ooorah to the mustangs!
How Can I Become an Attorney Without Law School? [Too Good to be True?]
You too can become an attorney with no college or without setting foot in law school in California, and several other states. There are probably a lot of folks out there who insist you need law school or college to be an attorney.
There are a few states like California who disagree and instead think that you should be able to become a lawyer without law school. Although the ABA discourages letting you become an attorney with no law school (e.g., learning law in a law office), this was in fact the traditional way to become a lawyer until the creation of expensive law schools like Harvard, in the 1800's.
Dangers of American Bar Association (ABA) Resistance Against Allowing Qualified Bar Candidates to Become a Lawyer With No Law School
Many people feel the American Bar Association ("ABA") is a cadre of elitists who know better than you. This would explain why the ABA apparrently thinks classroom education by a professor is better than real life experience.
Most states have apparrently surrendered to the the ABA, as they have disallowed "reading" for the law under the traditional apprenticeship methods. But because little is known about these programs and since many with traditional law degrees [paying sometimes $100,000 or more] thumb their noses at the original method, few people actually are involed in Law Office Study at a given time.
Since 1980, 436 people have registered for the apprentice program — known as law office study — with the State Bar of California and only 64 have passed the bar exam. Bar officials estimate that fewer than 30 people are pursuing the program at any given time. (Source LA Times)
The American Bar Association's ABA Code of Recommended Standards dictates that: "neither private study, correspondence study or law office training, nor age or experience should be substituted for law school education."(ABA Standards) Thankfully, you can still take the Bar Exam with no law school or college in a few states. In California, you can pass the bar exam with no law school or college at all.
What States Allow You to Become a Lawyer Without Law School? As far as I am aware, seven states in the U.S. allow reading for the law without law school as follows (Source):
California;
Maine;
New York;
Vermont;
Virginia;
Washington;
Wyoming.
Although this article focuses of California, a few of the above states have basic educational requirements prior to admission into the Bar.In California, this is known as the Law Office Study Program.
California:
"Applicants who obtain legal education by . . . law office study must have four years of law study and take an examination after their firstyear.Applicants who pass the examination within three consecutive administrations of first becoming eligible to take it will receive credit for all law study completed to the date of the examination passed."
Maine:
"Applicants may have. . .completed 2/3 of graduationrequirements from an ABA-accredited law school and within 12 months after successful completion pursued the study of law in the law office of an attorney in active practice of law in Maine on a full-time basis for at least one year . . .."
New York:
"Law office study permitted after successful completion of one year at an ABA-approved law school."(See also)
Vermont:
"Four-year law office study program; must have completed three-fourths of work accepted for a bachelor's degree in a college approved by the Court before commencing the study of law"
Wyoming:
"Law office study permitted as a structured course comparable to 2 years at an ABA-approved law school Prior approval of independent study required."
No special requirements are needed to become an attorney without law school in Virginia or Washington as far as I could determine.
All of the above information came from the "Comprehensive Guide to Bar Admission Requirements 2004," published by the National Conference of Bar Examiners and American Bar Association Section of Legal Education and Admissions to the Bar.(Source)
Famous American Lawyers, Presidents and U.S. Supreme Court Justices who Became Attorneys Without LawSchool
Law Office Study is how Abraham Lincoln and many other famous lawyers became attorneys.They learned by doing. The fact is,most lawyers "read" the law from Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England and then were questioned by a panel of judges, not by a Bar Exam at all. The Bar Exam was later created to establish a way to standardize the study of law.Of all the below jurists, only one took some law school courses.
1.Patrick Henry (1736-1799), member of the Continental Congress, governor of Virginia;
2. John Jay (1745-1829), first chief justice of the Supreme Court;
3. John Marshall (1755-1835), chief justice of the Supreme Court;
4. William Wirt (1772-1834), attorney general;
5. Roger B. Taney (1777-1864), secretary of the treasury, chief justice of the Supreme Court;
6. Daniel Webster (1782-1852), secretary of state;
7. Salmon P. Chase (1808-1873), senator, chief justice of the Supreme Court
8. Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865), president;
9. Stephen Douglas (1813-1861), representative, senator from Illinois;
10. Clarence Darrow (1857-1938), defense attorney in Scopes trial of 1925. [Clarence Darrow went to law school for one year, and preferred to study law on his own. He received most of his legal education in a law office in Youngstown, Ohio.]
11. Robert Storey (b. 1893), president of the American Bar Association (1952-1953)
12. J. Strom Thurmond (b. 1902), senator, governor of South Carolina
13. James O. Eastland (b. 1904), senator from Mississippi Wallechinsky, David, "The Book of Lists," 1977 (Web Source)
Importance of the Bar Exam Iteslf - ABA Resistance to Law Office Study - Is the Law Office Study Program in Danger of Extinction?
I personally feel that the Bar Exam is a helpful way to measure acceptability to the Courts via the California State Bar. I disagree with the ABA that people should not be allowed to take the Bar without law school. I equally disagree that people shouldn't be allowed to pass the Bar Exam without college or law school, who are otherwise qualified.
I created this blog to discuss the Law Office Study Program in other states besides California, as well as California, to help motivate people less fortunate who would otherwise be excellent attorneys. I also created this blog because I am fearful the California State Bar, and other out of State Bars will eliminate this valuable program of study in a law office. This is due in large part by pressure from the ABA to standardize the study of law in their bureaucratic image. There is another path to success other than law school.
Consumer and citizen awareness about the California State Bar Law Office Study Program is very important. We need to keep the Law Office Study Programs alive and we should also expand upon them in other states. The Law Office Study Programs are the last vestige of old America and its entrepreneurial spirit.
Law Office Study in California, A Brief Overview:
The Bar Candidate must first have the equivalent of an AA degree.
The Bar Candidate will need to score high on the CLEP if he does not have college. (College Level Equivalency Program). [This is what I did]
The Bar Candidate must take and pass the California State Bar First Year Law Students Exam (FYLSX) (aka "Baby Bar Exam") within the first three (3) attempts, or he or she will only receive credit for law office study for the first year and not for the study when retaking the Baby Bar the previous three (3) attempts.
The Bar Candidate must study under a judge or lawyer for four (4) years, being tested once per month by a supervising judge or attorney.
The Bar Candidate must take and pass the California State Bar General Bar Exam and pass it.
The Bar Candidate will probably know enough to immediately go into practice without having to work in a sweat shop defense firm or something like it, because he or she will already know as much about the area of practice he or she studied under as a seasoned four (4) year attorney.
Tips:
Study law under an attorney who practices in the field of law that you want to practice in once you pass the Bar Exam. You will always have work when you finally pass the Bar Exam. This equals freedom!
Cal Bar Tutorial Review - Paul Pfau the Legal Guru Tutor (CBTR):
Contact Paul Pfau at Cal Bar Tutorial Review and learn how to write for the Bar Exam. Paul Pfau is the law guru who taught me how to pass the Baby Bar with no college and to pass the California State Bar Exam with no J.D. If I could become a California lawyer - the hardest bar exam in the nation, bar none - with no law school degree with Paul Pfau's help, so can you. Paul Pfau was my law school bible.
Other Questions or Comments, Please send Los Angeles personal injury attorney, Michael Ehline a question or comment and he will check in when he is not in trial or deposition and get you the answer. You may also go to the Ehline Law website to learn more about becoming an attorney with no law school - degree, or becoming a lawyer with no college: http://www.ehlinelaw.com/
Nevada is not one of the states who currently has a law office study program as far as I know. Perhaps you should move to a state that has such a program?
Hi Michael, thank you for the informative website on 'reading the law'. I am considering the program in Virginia but am originally from New Jersey. With most 'reading the law' programs, can you practice in another state, or must you stay in the state that you read the law in. In other words, could i practice law in NJ after completing the program in VA if I feel the urge to move back home? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Brett
Unless your states Law Offices Study Program is ABA approved, which I highly doubt considering the ABA discourages study of law in a law offices unless you also attaned law school, you will probably not have a reciprocal ability to practice law in a state other than the state you "read" for the law in.
Contact your state's bar association and ask them. I am certain they can answer this question.
Hello. I just registered with the California Bar to study law in a law office. I'm 36 years old and have been a paralegal for the last 16 years. My long-time attorney friends have been encouraging me to pursue this path for many years and I have finally taken the plunge.
Any tips? Calling the Bar for information was pretty useless as it appears they don't encounter this often.
Is there anything in particular the Bar is looking for with regards to the "proposed course of study". Mine is attached for your review and comment.
Anything in particular with regards to the monthly written exams? Sufficiency of grading with a "pass" or "fail"?
Should I submit my written assignments also with my semi-annual reports?
Rosalind. You will need to be tested by your supervising attorney every month. How he or she tests you is up to him or her. I was usually tested with an essay exam - pass or fail - and 25 or so MBE questions.
As I recall you submit the exams with the semi annual reports. Nathalie Hope at the California State Bar was very helpful and she can address these issues further.
I recc. you see Paul Pfau at Cal Bar Tutorial Review NOW!!! So he can start preparing you for the Baby Bar Exam. I do not think I would have passed either the Baby Bar, or General Bar without him.
Feel free to ask more. BTW, do you have the equivalent of an AA of Bachelors, or did you take the CLEP?
The Bar educational requirements indicate 60 semester units at an approved college or university. I have appx. 100 unit, but never finished my Bachelors degree. Life happens, you know. I've put in for my transcripts to be sent to the Bar.
I checked out Paul Pfau/Cal Bar Tutorial Review website when I was researching and readying myself for this endeavor a few months ago. You really think I need to sign up RIGHT NOW?
I've been reading/practicing the selected questions and answers from the prior Bar exams. I admit a lot of it is over my head right now, but I'm a strong writer and always have been.
The attorney who's supervising me and I have come full circle, so to speak. He gave me my first job and I started out as a receptionist. I was with him for five years and then moved on. He solicited my return a couple of years ago when he got a partner.
He knows my abilities and I'm pretty much given carte blanc to run with cases (he strictly supervises, of course). I research, write briefs, points and authorities, etc.
With my new legal direction I've taken to being more pro-active with direction of cases. I used to ask where he wants to go with a case and run with that. Recently, I've taken to researching where I think a case should go and making a presentation to him. He likes that. I think it's good in developing my critical and analytical thinking (lawyerly thinking).
Yes, I'm long winded. As you know, there's not much information on this path.
YES!! You definitely need to see Paul Pfau NOW. You are crazy to wait. You need to learn how to study for the Baby Bar. Others, including your supervising attorneys may disagree, but I have first hand knowledge, so disregard what they say. PERIOD.
Get a Conviser Mini Review, all PMBR audio CD's and try and get a law school to let you attend property law classes to learn prior estates and future interests. You need to understand property law and remedies, not just contracts, torts and criminal law, if you want to score high on the Baby Bar. VERY IMPORTANT.
Listen to PMBR and Sum and Substance CD's all the time - try e-bay . . cheap - when you drive, go to gym and housework. You have chosen one of the most difficult and rewarding paths. Take what I say to heart and you will pass both the Baby Bar and General Bar Exams. Semper Fi!
P.S. Make sure you work out with weights and do cardio at least three days per week and avoid junk food. Eat healthy. No coke or pepsi. You will turn into a lard ass from all the sitting and studying and will destroy yourself if not.
Michael, congratulations on passing the bar exam without going to law school. You are a statistical anomaly indeed. But what I'd like to see is a statistic showing how many test-takers have passed a bar exam without first having availed themselves of one of the main-stream commercial bar-prep courses. I’d estimate that category as being more exclusive than even your own, Mr. Ehline, irrespective of the test-taker’s educational background.
Gerard - the California State Bar publishes pass/fail results and breaks it down to what type of legal education the test takers have received. http://www.calbar.ca.gov/state/calbar/calbar_home.jsp
Mike/Michael (What do you prefer to be called?) - OKAY!! Put the fear of BAR in me! I'll look into obtaining those sources you mentioned.
I was really wondering about myself as the thought of sitting for the Baby Bar and the Bar doesn't intimidate me at all. We all know some less than intelligent attorneys out there - if they can pass I can pass!
I've always survived baptism by fire. My first case as a paralegal was a federal wrongful death case. My involvement in the case was an accident. It dropped in the office less than six months after I started as a receptionist. Needed all hands available to work on it. FUN!
The internet is a wonderful thing. Many major law schools have their curriculum and book lists on-line. Some even have the class assignments, etc. I've been able to purchase used current edition textbooks for less than $10 each.
As for turning into a lard ass - doubt it! I have good genetics. So far the soda and chips have not hit my hips. Although age is giving me gravity poisoning. . .
I'm in San Diego BTW, so I'm active - like it or not.
Thanks for the tip regarding property law. That's the kind of stuff I need to know.
Rosalind, thanks for weighing in. Commercial bar prep courses are extra-curricular to minimum admissions requirements, so whether or not a test-taker has utilized such a resource is thus not reported in the official examination statistics, the most recent of which can be viewed here: http://www.calbar.ca.gov/calbar/pdfs/admissions/Statistics/JULY2006STATS.pdf
Gerard. Law Schools don't teach you how to pass the bar. They teach you how to pay student loans. (lol) IMHO. I did go to law school after I passed the Baby Bar however.
I took and passed the General Bar Exam with a year of law school left and was a practicing attorney walking around campus and taking classes. The only reason I did it is because the law school waived me in from taking the LSAT and first year classes, when they saw I passed the Baby Bar with no college and I wanted to get a JD so I could say I am a doctor.
In all events, I know there are some very gifted folks out there who may not have taken a commerical course and passed the General Bar.
More power to them. But the Bar is a problem solving speed exam, so it is an entirely differen't animal than law school, as it may have cross-overs into several areas of law in one exam, unlike law schools.
I am not a proponent of commerical bar prep courses and do not consider Paul Pfau to be a commercial course. He does one on one tutoring. You will be expected to know the substantive law before-hand.
He certainly helps guide you how to study better for the substantive law, but that is whatthe Conviser mini review is for and audio CD's are for.
My two cents. Now go and pass this this and get on with your life!
For some reason the tate Bar of CA called me today doing a random check-up to update their records. (I did not know that I was still registered) You see, in 2002, I was attending Law School via correspondence. To make a long story short, I did not continue as I had a serious health crisis. Now at the age of 42, I was regretful, but now want to complete what I had once started. YOUR BLOG HAS INSPIRED ME...THANKS!
Hi Mike: > > I read your blog. Thank you very much. Your story is truly inspiring. I have wanted to become a lawyer since I was a young boy. But as you said, "life happens." > > I am a 51 year old african american male. I currently live and work in Atlanta, Georgia as a real estate broker. I plan to study law via online courses. I have narrowed it down to two California schools; Northwestern California University or Oak Brook College. > > I have a Masters and Bachelor degree from the Jacksonville Theological Seminary. Both degrees have been rejected for credit by Northwestern. Jacksonville does not have the required regional accreditation. > > I am a military veteran. 10 years U.S. Army Broadcast Journalist. Excellsior College has given me 48 credits towards a bachelors degree for prior military training and experience. My options appear to be register for 12 additional credits through Excellsior, or take 3 Clep exams. > > The counselor at Northwestern suggested the Clep tests. He said that coming into the program with the credits in lieu of the degree will have to be evaluated by the California Bar. They may not allow the same credits Excellsior allowed. That based on what locally accredited colleges would transfer or allow. > > I took the Clep english test last month and score a 46. That was 4 points short of the required minimum of 50. I will have to wait another 6 months before I can re-take the english. > > I have a couple of concerns. Living in Georgia, I will not be able to use my California license. Graduating from a non-ABA school I will have to wait 5 years before being allowed to sit for the Georgia bar. > > I read on the internet that I might be able to practice in the Federal Court System. Right now I am primarily interested in contracts, copyrights, patents and entertainment law. Had also thought about real estate law. My wife and I had also discussed relocating the the D.C./Maryland area in a few years. > > Right now I am really over-welmed and confused. Need advice, mentorship, suggestions. Any input would be greatly appreciated. > > Thank you in advance. > > Ray > >
Rey: Don't forget that even if you are allowed to practice only in federal courts that cases are often removed to state court. What would you do then unless you had the proper license?
In my search for a way to study Law and become a lawyer without a Law School, I found your website and your personal experience.
I have a doctor degree in Science and I am interested in pursuing a career as a lawyer. I contacted California Bar asking them about the requirement to take the bar, and they mentioned nothing about the Law Office Study Program!!!
Michael I could just kiss you right now.I am a 31 year old mother of two who have dreamed of becoming a lawyer ever since I was a child.A former stay at home mom I recently enrolled in college.majoring in something I have no passion for.I had given up on my dream.I can not thank you enough for the info.I plan to brush up on my skills take the CLEP and get started asap.Oh and my husband says thanks you have saved us time as well as money...
Q: 1) How can you find a law firm/ office to start this program?
Answer: You have to start making calls and sending e mails.
Q: 2)Is there a published list for Law firms who serve this program?
A: No
This is an obscure program and your supervising attorney must have at least 5 years active experience as a lawyer before you can study under him and get credit.
OK, so we must contact a law firm that is willing to do the study? I mean, I have the impression that they are too busy, and they are for the money, what do you think? Do you know of a law firm?
Yes. My advice is that all of you wanting to do this start calling lawyers and asking them if you can "read for the law" under them in exchange for you helping them with filing, copying, etc.
That is what you should do. That is what I did. This blog has all the answers.
this blog has been an enormous inspiration to me. I am actually a Criminal Defendant that has pled guilty and served time on misdomeanor charges. (Reduced from Felony Charges by the Judge.) This Juidge has taken an interest in me as to why I started shoplifting after a lifetime of no criminal history. I have since asked the Judge to consider serving as my Professor in the Law Office Study Program. He seems interested and has scheduled me to re-appear before him on April 3rd, 2008. God willing; I'll take the CA Bar sometime in 2013
Dear Michael and others, I'm enrolled in the Vermont 4 year Law Study Program; this is one of the states where you don't need to go to law school.
You do, however, need to have completed at least 3/4 of the work for a Bachelor's Degree.
Then, you need to work (paid or not) with a sponsoring attorney for 4 years.
It costs $200.00 to get into the program. After that, you submit reports every six months to the Vermont Supreme Court, and those reports are signed by your sponsoring attorney.
Here in Vermont, at least, the oversight is not extensive, so there's considerable flexibility as to what you study and in what order.
I'm finishing my first year now and will be eligible to take the Vermont Bar in three years.
I love what I'm doing. I worked first with a local state's attorney (prosecutor) and now I've moved onto a private criminal defense/constitutional law firm.
There's no doubt about it--you learn better when it's connected to the real world. I've already written two drafts of appeals to the Vermont Supreme Court, and I've done many other things, some mundane, some not.
Last month, I did a budget for my total projected expenses in the 4 year law study program. I calculated the program registration fee, the bar exam fee, books, purchase of a new laptop, transportation to my law firm (45 minutes away), and a bar review course when the time comes. It comes out to a total of $7,500 for the four year period.
That's dramatically different than what I'd spend on ANY law school.
A couple of cautions: to do this, you have to be good at structuring your own time and study (I'm okay at it, not great); you also work mostly in isolation--so you miss the built in community of other law students; finally, as of now, virtually no other states that I might be interested in living in/practicing in will officially recognize my law study, even if I pass the Vermont Bar Exam. (Although I wonder if this official rule can be pressed--I bet it can--we'll see)
All in all, I recommend this process, and I fervently hope that the law study option doesn't disappear from our landscape.
Mr. Ehline, I had a question. Do you take one Clep exam or multiple? I've been trying to find that out. I am a 30 year old male with NO college. And I wasn't sure if I needed to take multiple Clep tests that amounted to "X" number of listed credits.
The most important thing (as Attorney Ehline points out) is personal initiative - you'll have to do a lot of work to find just the right mentor. But OTOH you will actually learn how to be a lawyer (something law schools are lousy at) and avoid the crushing burden of loans.
If you wanted to take the CA Bar, could you study under an attorney from another state? In other words- if I live in PA but want to practice law in CA later in life, can I "read" for it under a PA lawyer, take the Baby Bar after Year 1, and then, 3 years later, take the bar itself? DO I HAVE to study under a CA lawyer to sit for the CA bar?
Im thinking about participating in the law office study program, but first thing i need to do is pass the CLEP. The only thing is, the CLEP TEST is divided into many subjects. For example you have a CLEP for english, a CLEP for math, and etc. Im just wondering out of all the different CLEP examinations, which one should i take ? or which one would be best to take ? or am i missing something here !!
You should take the CLEP exams where in you believe you have the best chance at doing well on. If you suck at math, then do social sciences for example.
Can I take the Virginia bar exam if I did not graduate from a law school which was approved by the American Bar Association (ABA) at the time of my graduation?
No. The Board has adopted the ABA Standards for Approval of Law Schools. Thus it is unlikely that a law school which has been found not to comply with the Standards by the ABA would be approved by the Board.
Dear Sir; Might I say, you are one inspiring individual. I have spent countless hours reading all I can find about your story. I am a 42 yr old free-lance writer from Virginia. Prior-service (Army). My home common-wealth has changed the rules concerning LOSP, it is no longer offered. It is for this reason that I am re-locating to Ca. in March, '09 so I can pass the CLEP and get moving on my new career. I have but one question that eludes my research on this topic: "Does one petition the bar for acceptance for Law Office Study prior to taking the CLEP?" Sir, (dunno if you're enlisted or brass but the title is well earned regardless) you have already been of great assistance to me in this endeavor though we have never communicated. Following in your footsteps shall be difficult as those are huge strides and deep impressions you have left for those of us bringing up the rear. But, one day I hope to have a Supreme Court Justice refer to me as "tenacious". (hell, just to have one know my name as a jurist would be priceless to me!)
Hi, my name is Jake and I am a Certified Court Interpreter in the Spanish language in Nevada, Utah and California (I live in the San Diego area). I am interested in doing the LOSP program and studying under my dad who is a Personal Injury lawyer in Vegas. He was admitted into the CA and NV bars in 1980. Do you know if this is allowed? Can a family member be the "supervising attorney" in the LOSP program? My dad is anxious to start mentoring me and even has plans to rent a small office in San Diego for the sole purpose of making sure my apprenticeship actually takes place in California. I've tried to search the by-laws and guidelines set forth by the CA Bar but have yet to find anything the specifically prohibits this. Maybe you have some input? Thanks, Michael.
Just recently I have found your wonderful blog and got extremely motivated to get started with the Law Office Study program in California.
My questions today are:
Is there a good way of approaching a local Attorney or Court Judge?
If contacting by mail is there a sample of an introduction/information letter to potential supervising Attorneys and/or Judges you could share with us here?
Your help would be much appreciated. Thank you very much.
This is easily the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. While we're at it, lets have doctors who didn't go to medical school! People in the 1800s did that, too!
Who needs formal education? Everyone take the easy way out!
Wonderful blog. Any thoughts or recommendations about California-based long distance learning schools such as Concord Law School and Northwestern California University Law School?
Posts
39 comments:
Do you know how Nevada look at this?
Nevada is not one of the states who currently has a law office study program as far as I know. Perhaps you should move to a state that has such a program?
Hi Michael, thank you for the informative website on 'reading the law'. I am considering the program in Virginia but am originally from New Jersey.
With most 'reading the law' programs, can you practice in another state, or must you stay in the state that you read the law in. In other words, could i practice law in NJ after completing the program in VA if I feel the urge to move back home? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Brett
Brett:
Unless your states Law Offices Study Program is ABA approved, which I highly doubt considering the ABA discourages study of law in a law offices unless you also attaned law school, you will probably not have a reciprocal ability to practice law in a state other than the state you "read" for the law in.
Contact your state's bar association and ask them. I am certain they can answer this question.
/s/ Mike Ehline. http://www.ehlinelaw.com/
Dear Mr. Ehline,
Hello. I just registered with the California Bar to study law in a law office. I'm 36 years old and have been a paralegal for the last 16 years. My long-time attorney friends have been encouraging me to pursue this path for many years and I have finally taken the plunge.
Any tips? Calling the Bar for information was pretty useless as it appears they don't encounter this often.
Is there anything in particular the Bar is looking for with regards to the "proposed course of study". Mine is attached for your review and comment.
Anything in particular with regards to the monthly written exams? Sufficiency of grading with a "pass" or "fail"?
Should I submit my written assignments also with my semi-annual reports?
Thanks for your time.
Rosalind
Rosalind. You will need to be tested by your supervising attorney every month. How he or she tests you is up to him or her. I was usually tested with an essay exam - pass or fail - and 25 or so MBE questions.
As I recall you submit the exams with the semi annual reports. Nathalie Hope at the California State Bar was very helpful and she can address these issues further.
I recc. you see Paul Pfau at Cal Bar Tutorial Review NOW!!! So he can start preparing you for the Baby Bar Exam. I do not think I would have passed either the Baby Bar, or General Bar without him.
Feel free to ask more. BTW, do you have the equivalent of an AA of Bachelors, or did you take the CLEP?
The Bar educational requirements indicate 60 semester units at an approved college or university. I have appx. 100 unit, but never finished my Bachelors degree. Life happens, you know. I've put in for my transcripts to be sent to the Bar.
I checked out Paul Pfau/Cal Bar Tutorial Review website when I was researching and readying myself for this endeavor a few months ago. You really think I need to sign up RIGHT NOW?
I've been reading/practicing the selected questions and answers from the prior Bar exams. I admit a lot of it is over my head right now, but I'm a strong writer and always have been.
The attorney who's supervising me and I have come full circle, so to speak. He gave me my first job and I started out as a receptionist. I was with him for five years and then moved on. He solicited my return a couple of years ago when he got a partner.
He knows my abilities and I'm pretty much given carte blanc to run with cases (he strictly supervises, of course). I research, write briefs, points and authorities, etc.
With my new legal direction I've taken to being more pro-active with direction of cases. I used to ask where he wants to go with a case and run with that. Recently, I've taken to researching where I think a case should go and making a presentation to him. He likes that. I think it's good in developing my critical and analytical thinking (lawyerly thinking).
Yes, I'm long winded. As you know, there's not much information on this path.
Roz
YES!! You definitely need to see Paul Pfau NOW. You are crazy to wait. You need to learn how to study for the Baby Bar. Others, including your supervising attorneys may disagree, but I have first hand knowledge, so disregard what they say. PERIOD.
Get a Conviser Mini Review, all PMBR audio CD's and try and get a law school to let you attend property law classes to learn prior estates and future interests. You need to understand property law and remedies, not just contracts, torts and criminal law, if you want to score high on the Baby Bar. VERY IMPORTANT.
Listen to PMBR and Sum and Substance CD's all the time - try e-bay . . cheap - when you drive, go to gym and housework. You have chosen one of the most difficult and rewarding paths. Take what I say to heart and you will pass both the Baby Bar and General Bar Exams. Semper Fi!
P.S. Make sure you work out with weights and do cardio at least three days per week and avoid junk food. Eat healthy. No coke or pepsi. You will turn into a lard ass from all the sitting and studying and will destroy yourself if not.
Michael, congratulations on passing the bar exam without going to law school. You are a statistical anomaly indeed. But what I'd like to see is a statistic showing how many test-takers have passed a bar exam without first having availed themselves of one of the main-stream commercial bar-prep courses. I’d estimate that category as being more exclusive than even your own, Mr. Ehline, irrespective of the test-taker’s educational background.
Gerard - the California State Bar publishes pass/fail results and breaks it down to what type of legal education the test takers have received. http://www.calbar.ca.gov/state/calbar/calbar_home.jsp
Mike/Michael (What do you prefer to be called?) - OKAY!! Put the fear of BAR in me! I'll look into obtaining those sources you mentioned.
I was really wondering about myself as the thought of sitting for the Baby Bar and the Bar doesn't intimidate me at all. We all know some less than intelligent attorneys out there - if they can pass I can pass!
I've always survived baptism by fire. My first case as a paralegal was a federal wrongful death case. My involvement in the case was an accident. It dropped in the office less than six months after I started as a receptionist. Needed all hands available to work on it. FUN!
The internet is a wonderful thing. Many major law schools have their curriculum and book lists on-line. Some even have the class assignments, etc. I've been able to purchase used current edition textbooks for less than $10 each.
As for turning into a lard ass - doubt it! I have good genetics. So far the soda and chips have not hit my hips. Although age is giving me gravity poisoning. . .
I'm in San Diego BTW, so I'm active - like it or not.
Thanks for the tip regarding property law. That's the kind of stuff I need to know.
Roz.
Rosalind, thanks for weighing in. Commercial bar prep courses are extra-curricular to minimum admissions requirements, so whether or not a test-taker has utilized such a resource is thus not reported in the official examination statistics, the most recent of which can be viewed here:
http://www.calbar.ca.gov/calbar/pdfs/admissions/Statistics/JULY2006STATS.pdf
Gerard. Law Schools don't teach you how to pass the bar. They teach you how to pay student loans. (lol) IMHO. I did go to law school after I passed the Baby Bar however.
I took and passed the General Bar Exam with a year of law school left and was a practicing attorney walking around campus and taking classes. The only reason I did it is because the law school waived me in from taking the LSAT and first year classes, when they saw I passed the Baby Bar with no college and I wanted to get a JD so I could say I am a doctor.
In all events, I know there are some very gifted folks out there who may not have taken a commerical course and passed the General Bar.
More power to them. But the Bar is a problem solving speed exam, so it is an entirely differen't animal than law school, as it may have cross-overs into several areas of law in one exam, unlike law schools.
I am not a proponent of commerical bar prep courses and do not consider Paul Pfau to be a commercial course. He does one on one tutoring. You will be expected to know the substantive law before-hand.
He certainly helps guide you how to study better for the substantive law, but that is whatthe Conviser mini review is for and audio CD's are for.
My two cents. Now go and pass this this and get on with your life!
Hello --
Question: does becoming a lawyer by this method limit that person's mobility (and earning potential)?
Karen in SF
Dear Mr. Ehline,
For some reason the tate Bar of CA called me today doing a random check-up to update their records. (I did not know that I was still registered) You see, in 2002, I was attending Law School via correspondence. To make a long story short, I did not continue as I had a serious health crisis. Now at the age of 42, I was regretful, but now want to complete what I had once started. YOUR BLOG HAS INSPIRED ME...THANKS!
BTW, I have an MBA and a PhD already.
Hi Mike:
>
> I read your blog. Thank you very much. Your story is truly inspiring. I have
wanted to become a lawyer since I was a young boy. But as you said, "life
happens."
>
> I am a 51 year old african american male. I currently live and work in
Atlanta, Georgia as a real estate broker. I plan to study law via online
courses. I have narrowed it down to two California schools; Northwestern
California University or Oak Brook College.
>
> I have a Masters and Bachelor degree from the Jacksonville Theological
Seminary. Both degrees have been rejected for credit by Northwestern.
Jacksonville does not have the required regional accreditation.
>
> I am a military veteran. 10 years U.S. Army Broadcast Journalist. Excellsior
College has given me 48 credits towards a bachelors degree for prior military
training and experience. My options appear to be register for 12 additional
credits through Excellsior, or take 3 Clep exams.
>
> The counselor at Northwestern suggested the Clep tests. He said that coming
into the program with the credits in lieu of the degree will have to be
evaluated by the California Bar. They may not allow the same credits Excellsior
allowed. That based on what locally accredited colleges would transfer or
allow.
>
> I took the Clep english test last month and score a 46. That was 4 points
short of the required minimum of 50. I will have to wait another 6 months
before I can re-take the english.
>
> I have a couple of concerns. Living in Georgia, I will not be able to use my
California license. Graduating from a non-ABA school I will have to wait 5
years before being allowed to sit for the Georgia bar.
>
> I read on the internet that I might be able to practice in the Federal Court
System. Right now I am primarily interested in contracts, copyrights, patents
and entertainment law. Had also thought about real estate law. My wife and I
had also discussed relocating the the D.C./Maryland area in a few years.
>
> Right now I am really over-welmed and confused. Need advice, mentorship,
suggestions. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you in advance.
>
>
Ray
>
>
Rey: Don't forget that even if you are allowed to practice only in federal courts that cases are often removed to state court. What would you do then unless you had the proper license?
Dear Mr. Ehline,
In my search for a way to study Law and become a lawyer without a Law School, I found your website and your personal experience.
I have a doctor degree in Science and I am interested in pursuing a career as a lawyer. I contacted California Bar asking them about the requirement to take the bar, and they mentioned nothing about the Law Office Study Program!!!
I would like to ask for your advise on the issue.
I will very much appreciate your response.
Sally
Michael I could just kiss you right now.I am a 31 year old mother of two who have dreamed of becoming a lawyer ever since I was a child.A former stay at home mom I recently enrolled in college.majoring in something I have no passion for.I had given up on my dream.I can not thank you enough for the info.I plan to brush up on my skills take the CLEP and get started asap.Oh and my husband says thanks you have saved us time as well as money...
Dear Mike,
I found the answer and the forms for the "Study Law in Office" program. Thank you for the helpful blog.
I still have more questions:
1) How can you find a law firm/ office to start this program?
2)Is there a published list for Law firms who serve this program?
I am interested in Patent Law (considering my PhD in medicine), corp. Law. I am personally interested in Employment Law too.
Could you please shed some light on these questions? Thanks!
Q: 1) How can you find a law firm/ office to start this program?
Answer: You have to start making calls and sending e mails.
Q: 2)Is there a published list for Law firms who serve this program?
A: No
This is an obscure program and your supervising attorney must have at least 5 years active experience as a lawyer before you can study under him and get credit.
OK, so we must contact a law firm that is willing to do the study?
I mean, I have the impression that they are too busy, and they are for the money, what do you think?
Do you know of a law firm?
What about NYC?
I am working in the law firm, I have my BS degree. Tha attorneys are willing to supervise me but we still need advise - any suggestions?
- we will do testing once a month - but where do we get the curriculum and what type of testing? then what?
- NYS has baby bar exam? if so where do you take this test?
Yes. My advice is that all of you wanting to do this start calling lawyers and asking them if you can "read for the law" under them in exchange for you helping them with filing, copying, etc.
That is what you should do. That is what I did. This blog has all the answers.
this blog has been an enormous inspiration to me. I am actually a Criminal Defendant that has pled guilty and served time on misdomeanor charges. (Reduced from Felony Charges by the Judge.) This Juidge has taken an interest in me as to why I started shoplifting after a lifetime of no criminal history. I have since asked the Judge to consider serving as my Professor in the Law Office Study Program. He seems interested and has scheduled me to re-appear before him on April 3rd, 2008. God willing; I'll take the CA Bar sometime in 2013
Dear Michael and others,
I'm enrolled in the Vermont 4 year Law Study Program; this is one of the states where you don't need to go to law school.
You do, however, need to have completed at least 3/4 of the work for a Bachelor's Degree.
Then, you need to work (paid or not) with a sponsoring attorney for 4 years.
It costs $200.00 to get into the program. After that, you submit reports every six months to the Vermont Supreme Court, and those reports are signed by your sponsoring attorney.
Here in Vermont, at least, the oversight is not extensive, so there's considerable flexibility as to what you study and in what order.
I'm finishing my first year now and will be eligible to take the Vermont Bar in three years.
I love what I'm doing. I worked first with a local state's attorney (prosecutor) and now I've moved onto a private criminal defense/constitutional law firm.
There's no doubt about it--you learn better when it's connected to the real world. I've already written two drafts of appeals to the Vermont Supreme Court, and I've done many other things, some mundane, some not.
Last month, I did a budget for my total projected expenses in the 4 year law study program. I calculated the program registration fee, the bar exam fee, books, purchase of a new laptop, transportation to my law firm (45 minutes away), and a bar review course when the time comes. It comes out to a total of $7,500 for the four year period.
That's dramatically different than what I'd spend on ANY law school.
A couple of cautions: to do this, you have to be good at structuring your own time and study (I'm okay at it, not great); you also work mostly in isolation--so you miss the built in community of other law students; finally, as of now, virtually no other states that I might be interested in living in/practicing in will officially recognize my law study, even if I pass the Vermont Bar Exam. (Although I wonder if this official rule can be pressed--I bet it can--we'll see)
All in all, I recommend this process, and I fervently hope that the law study option doesn't disappear from our landscape.
Laura Wilson
Guildhall, Vermont
Mr. Ehline,
I had a question.
Do you take one Clep exam or multiple? I've been trying to find that out.
I am a 30 year old male with NO college. And I wasn't sure if I needed to take multiple Clep tests that amounted to "X" number of listed credits.
I took it all in one day.
If you're interested in Washington State's similar program, please see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WSLCA/.
The most important thing (as Attorney Ehline points out) is personal initiative - you'll have to do a lot of work to find just the right mentor. But OTOH you will actually learn how to be a lawyer (something law schools are lousy at) and avoid the crushing burden of loans.
Mr Ehline
If you wanted to take the CA Bar, could
you study under an attorney from another state?
In other words- if I live in PA but want to practice law in CA later in life, can I "read" for it under a PA lawyer, take the Baby Bar after Year 1, and then, 3 years later, take the bar itself? DO I HAVE to study under a CA lawyer to sit for the CA bar?
Thanks
T Patrick Muray
You have to study in CA.
Im thinking about participating in the law office study program, but first thing i need to do is pass the CLEP. The only thing is, the CLEP TEST is divided into many subjects. For example you have a CLEP for english, a CLEP for math, and etc. Im just wondering out of all the different CLEP examinations, which one should i take ? or which one would be best to take ? or am i missing something here !!
@ christopher vernon
You should take the CLEP exams where in you believe you have the best chance at doing well on. If you suck at math, then do social sciences for example.
I found this on the Virginia Bar Examiners site
Can I take the Virginia bar exam if I did not graduate from a law school which was approved by the American Bar Association (ABA) at the time of my graduation?
No. The Board has adopted the ABA Standards for Approval of Law Schools. Thus it is unlikely that a law school which has been found not to comply with the Standards by the ABA would be approved by the Board.
Dear Sir;
Might I say, you are one inspiring individual. I have spent countless hours reading all I can find about your story. I am a 42 yr old free-lance writer from Virginia. Prior-service (Army). My home common-wealth has changed the rules concerning LOSP, it is no longer offered. It is for this reason that I am re-locating to Ca. in March, '09 so I can pass the CLEP and get moving on my new career. I have but one question that eludes my research on this topic: "Does one petition the bar for acceptance for Law Office Study prior to taking the CLEP?"
Sir, (dunno if you're enlisted or brass but the title is well earned regardless) you have already been of great assistance to me in this endeavor though we have never communicated. Following in your footsteps shall be difficult as those are huge strides and deep impressions you have left for those of us bringing up the rear. But, one day I hope to have a Supreme Court Justice refer to me as "tenacious". (hell, just to have one know my name as a jurist would be priceless to me!)
Thank-you,
Liam Carmody
Future Attorney at Law
Hi, my name is Jake and I am a Certified Court Interpreter in the Spanish language in Nevada, Utah and California (I live in the San Diego area). I am interested in doing the LOSP program and studying under my dad who is a Personal Injury lawyer in Vegas. He was admitted into the CA and NV bars in 1980. Do you know if this is allowed? Can a family member be the "supervising attorney" in the LOSP program? My dad is anxious to start mentoring me and even has plans to rent a small office in San Diego for the sole purpose of making sure my apprenticeship actually takes place in California. I've tried to search the by-laws and guidelines set forth by the CA Bar but have yet to find anything the specifically prohibits this. Maybe you have some input? Thanks, Michael.
Hello Michael P. Ehline
Just recently I have found your wonderful blog and got extremely motivated to get started with the Law Office Study program in California.
My questions today are:
Is there a good way of approaching a local Attorney or Court Judge?
If contacting by mail is there a sample of an introduction/information letter to potential supervising Attorneys and/or Judges you could share with us here?
Your help would be much appreciated. Thank you very much.
Randy
This is easily the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. While we're at it, lets have doctors who didn't go to medical school! People in the 1800s did that, too!
Who needs formal education? Everyone take the easy way out!
Wonderful blog. Any thoughts or recommendations about California-based long distance learning schools such as Concord Law School and Northwestern California University Law School?
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